[Help] Entry pinion bearings gone?

[Wipeout]

Hello forum! Wanted to share with you the problem im having with the rear axle of our 190L smiley:

Since some time the differential was whining at around 60km/h and also doing some noise (like metal to metal noise) at low speed...till yesterday the noise got worse (as bad as to stop using it...)

So went down to check oil level, was ok...the only problem I can see is a lot of play in between propshaft and the entry flange to the differential...
How easy is to change the bearings marked in the picture?? [#20 and #21] I have the feeling that this bearings are gone...



I have a video with the symptoms but I don't know how to share it here...

Thanks a lot in advance!!!

[dumper]

If a bearing has gone and you have run it like it for some time it’s possible you have damaged the crownwheel and pinion and it will need replacing.
It’s possible that the nut has come loose or you have slight wear and play in the bearings now this is not the right way to it do but you could just tighten up the nut slowly to take up the play item 22 on your parts list is a a collapsible sleeve that is a one time use item if when you are setting up the pre load on the pinnon bearings and you over tighten the pre load you have to start again with a new sleeve
On my mk3 190 I did just tighten up the nut when I had a similar problem but mine wasn’t noisy just had some play I did this and it was still ok when I sold it after putting a lot of mileage on it now this is not the proper way but at work before doing mine we did this on loads of Fords with the same setup.

[Wipeout]

Thanks @Dumper for your reply!

He vehicle was driven back home and we stopped using it. To check for damage I should take the diff back lid right ?

At one point I had a bad seal, so I un tighten the nut and change seal and tighten the nut again…this should have been done with a change of part 22 (sleeve) ??

And to change the bearing it’s posible with and extractor ? Some has succeeded with this method or it needs to be demounted the whole axle and use a bench press ??

Thanks !!!

[dumper]

To set the pinion pre-load properly you should take the crown wheel out and with a new collapsible sleeve, reset, the turning torque to a specific amount can’t member what it is. It’s possible when you fitted a new seal you either under tightened or overtightened it and caused the bearings to wear yes you could take the pan off and look inside and inspect it.
When I used to replace a pinion seal I used the centre pop the end of the pinion shaft and the nut and undo the nut counting the turns to remove the nut and when refitting count the turns back on and line up the pop marks so that it was at the same setting and not overnighted.
The only way to be sure is to strip it to check if the bearings are ok or tighten the nut just enough to take out the play and road test it and see if that sorts it .
I never liked the Ford collapsible sleeve idea I preferred the shim method of setting the bearing preload it was so much easier.

[gotgcoalman]

Isn't the bearing tapered,hence the need for the stupid crush washer.

As dumper said.
Ideally mark the nut and shaft then count the turns to get it off.

Same amount of turns and line up the marks on re fitting gets you "near as"

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[Wipeout]

Thanks for all the answers !! But I feel that the discussion went to the direction of just checking the nut torque.

When actually I was thinking that I’ll like to have some info please about how to change the front bearing. Does anyone has done it ? Can be done from the front of the axle or needs to be taken all apart and work from the back ?

[gotgcoalman]

Un do nut counting turns.
Bearing is as far as I remember tapered and access is from the prop nut/flange end.

Remove the seal.

Fish the bearing out with screwdrivers or mechanics seal picks.

Don't know if the crush washer is gettable from there though.

The above I have done many years ago when I replaced a leaky pinion seal.

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[dumper]

They are a pair you can’t get to the inner one without stripping the diff and would need pressing off or a bearing puller the outer one can be just as tight you usually get it out by knocking the pinnon through it when the diff is removed.

[Wipeout]

Will update a bit:
I still couldn’t start the job but I was looking already for some bearing suppliers and what I can see it’s that normally can be bought the whole kit of bearings. That’s because is better to change all of them ?
How dificulta is to tear down the diff and mount it back ?
Will appreciate some opinions about it,
Or should I just change the outer bearing ? (The one that is easy to take out…)

[dumper]

You need both pinion bearings changing as a pair and you have to remove the crown-wheel to do this so no point in not doing them .
if you have not done them before you may find it difficult with setting the preload on the pinion and the backlash on the crown-wheel
Have you looked at getting a price from a transmission specialist all the local garages local to me send all there’s to Henderson Transmisions, Doncaster .do a search on YouTube someone must have put a how to on it will give you an idea of what’s involved.

[Wipeout]

You need both pinion bearings changing as a pair and you have to remove the crown-wheel to do this so no point in not doing them .
if you have not done them before you may find it difficult with setting the preload on the pinion and the backlash on the crown-wheel
Have you looked at getting a price from a transmission specialist all the local garages local to me send all there’s to Henderson Transmisions, Doncaster .do a search on YouTube someone must have put a how to on it will give you an idea of what’s involved.

Thanks Dumper for the answer, yes I supposed as well that once open will be better to change all inside bearings...
Where I live there is no "transmission shop" and the garages are very packed up with cars and normally they don't wanna work with the oldy smileys...
So I tend to do pretty much all mechanical jobs with our cars...
For the preload/backlash setting ill check YouTube yes, but apart from that no one can share some Haynes torque values please? or some pages related to this jobs ? if there is...
Ill really appreciate it !

[dumper]

I had the gen Ford workshop manual but when I sold the diff unit with a LSD fitted I let it go with it if I can find the Haynes manual if I still have it I’ll post the settings.As for tools to do the job you will need DTI gauge and magnetic stand to set the backlash for setting the pinion pre load Edd China on wheeler dealers do a work round for not having for not having the proper tool basically he bolted o flat bar on the end of the flange I think it was a foot long and on the end of it put weight can’t remember how heavy he tightened the nut to collapse the collapsible sleeve inside till the pinion would just hold and not turn .when did mine I used a fishing weighing scales to check what torque needed to turn it .Because I was building the axles for a rally car and would be stripping them more often the a road car I did away with the collapsible sleeve and made a spacer and used shims to set the preload.

[gotgcoalman]

Don't know if this is any help.
Re: bar and weight when setting up.
Wasn't it 1lb of force at 1 foot.

IMG_20230731_161834.jpg

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[gotgcoalman]

Bit closer

IMG_20230731_162311.jpg

IMG_20230731_162324.jpg

IMG_20230731_162343.jpg

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[Wipeout]

Thanks for the info ! I’m gathering some more info and strength and soon I’ll start the job